Anglesey, Conwy and Gwynedd and Denbighshire, Flintshire and Wrexham Local Ratepayer Valuation Forum Meeting

Meetings held

2 November 2004 at the Celtic Royal Hotel, Caernarfon

3 November at the Changing Rooms Restaurant, Wrexham Football Club

FROM THE VALUATION OFFICE AGENCY

Mary Hardman, Helen Zammit-Willson, Liz Thomas, Nigel Holley,

Jean Jones, Nicola Hall, Robert Jones

Tony Capp

MINUTES OF THE LAST MEETING

These were agreed

What follows is a summary of the presentations given at both meetings – which were similar, and the questions asked and responses made. Whilst these differed between the meetings they have been amalgamated in the minutes for ease of reading and to better inform all participants. Handouts of the presentations were distributed to all attendees on the day and are available electronically on request.

INTRODUCTION

Mary Hardman welcomed all attendees. She then gave a brief summary of what was discussed at the last meeting, in particular the main issues which were - Queries on Summary Valuations (SVs), Issues on Business Rates Relief with Assembly (Small Business Relief will not operate in Wales – Rural Rate Relief will continue. The Assembly have carried out research and Rural Rate relief targets the small businesses in need), BIDS, Valuation of Licensed Properties, clarification on Working from Home, and the Use of Rating Lists by SKY.

BUSINESS RATES REVALUATION 2005

Helen Zammit-Willson explained why revaluations of business premises were carried out every 5 years. She explained that for 2005 the average increase in Wales was approximately 13% compared with 17% in England. She gave details of how high profile properties such as electricity generating properties had an impact on the statistics, especially in Gwynedd and Flintshire. She also provided percentage swings by Billing Authority and class code i.e. shops, offices, industrials, licensed properties etc. She advised members that there had been no statement, at that time, regarding Transitional Relief (TR). It has since been announced that there will be no TR in Wales for the 2005 List. Helen gave details on what the VO had arranged for dealing with queries arising from the draft list, this included a specific helpdesk number 0845 602 1507. She also informed members that the VOA would be willing to attend events/meetings to discuss the revaluation or any concerns their organisations may have.

Q. You mentioned 326 phone call query's resulting from the summary valuations (SVs) that have been sent out. Out of how many SVs is this number?

A. 20,000 - 25,000 summary valuations have been issued.

Q. You mentioned increases in rateable value for hotels and guesthouses of the order of

40%. Why is this?

A. The increases are in the light of growth in this sector.

Q. If the 2005 rateable value (RV) is wrong, then it is possible that the 2000 RV is also incorrect. What time-scale would the ratepayer have to appeal the 2000 list and would it be possible for the 2000 list to be appealed once we have entered in to the new list?

A. VO said that it is important for ratepayers to make enquiries about the 2005 valuations now. VO explained that once the 2005 list comes into force on the 1 st April 2005, the right to appeal against the 2000 list is limited to appeals against a recent alteration of the 2000 list.

Q. Rural Rate Relief is only applicable to RV’s of less than £6,000. Is it likely that Rural Rate Relief may be extended to included RV’s above £6,000 in the near future?

A. VO said that they were not aware of any changes that are to be made to Rural Rate Relief. But explained that the Assembly is doing some research at the moment into the whole area of reliefs.

Q . Have you any idea what the new Uniform Business Rate will be? It would benefit ratepayers to know what the UBR was going to be in advance to allow them to budget.

A. An announcement of the new UBR is expected to be made within the next few weeks.

Q. Is there currently any relief for new businesses?

A. There is no statutory rate relief available for new businesses but if Ratepayers were to contact the Economic Department of the Local Council they would be able to advise them further of any help available to new businesses.

DEMYSTIFYING THE VALUATION PROCESS – WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW

Liz Thomas explained the basis of valuation and gave details on how properties were measured to Gross Internal Area (GIA) and Net Internal Area (NIA) using the RICS Code of Measuring Practice. She showed examples of rental analysis evidence and explained what was taken into consideration when analysing the rents. She stressed the importance of ratepayers completing Forms of Returns and supplying the VO with rental evidence.

Q. How confident is the VO in achieving ‘First Right Time’ valuations?

A. VO stated that they had been working very hard on the re-valuation but only 50% of Forms of Returns issued have been returned. Our aim for 100% accuracy but that cannot be guaranteed. VO said that they have not yet finished and as more information about rents and trade becomes available the more accurate the revaluation will become. VO explained that to ensure accuracy the VO has improved the FOR’s which are sent out and have adopted a policy of re-inspection to ensure surveys are up to date.

Q . It is agreed that there have been massive improvements, is there going to be an improvement on the timescale for dealing with appeals?

A . It would be wonderful to be able to deal with appeals within, say 12 months of receipt. At the moment in Wales appeals are being turned around within 2/3 months but in the first few weeks of the 2005 List many appeals will be received. These have to be sifted for hardship cases etc. Of the appeals received in this List, 70% were withdrawn, 30% had an affect on the list. Our aim is to reduce some of the 70% withdrawn – many of these are duplicate appeals and potentially unnecessary. In England the ODPM is going out to consultation on limiting appeals to ‘one appeal per property per occupier’. This could be seen as a good way of helping to reduce the large quantity of blanket and duplicate appeals. Also there are proposals, in England, to remove effective date limitations which would help to reduce the number of appeals made during the first rate year of a new list. The position of the Assembly on this area is not yet known

Q . Is it possible for new businesses that can’t afford to pay rates on their premises pay rates based on their business turnover?

A. We have to value property according to the legislation i.e. on rental value. We cannot value on net profit. There would have to be a change in legislation to do this. New businesses should perhaps explore other avenues for help such as Rural Rate Relief.

COUNCIL TAX REVALUATION WALES 2005

Nigel Holley gave background information regarding revaluation targets and timescales and explained that Wales had actually completed 100% valuations ahead of the target deadline of 31 July 2004. He showed the new range of bands and explained there would be a new Band I for Wales. He illustrated the banding processes used, which included the various questionnaires that had been issued to some Council Taxpayers. He talked about the more complex properties such as those with planning restrictions and licensed properties. He also gave the current position, by Billing Authority, of the percentage of bands that had increased, reduced or stayed the same.

And indicated the percentage that had risen by one, two or three bands or more. He described how helpdesks (tel: 0845 600 1748) had been set up and how staff were dealing with queries. He explained that it was difficult to provide information post 01/04/05 as it is not known how many appeals would be made. But that placing appeals within a programme to enable the VO to give a target date to be dealt with, Transitional Relief and future revaluations were all being discussed with the Assembly.

Q. How does a householder go about proving the value of their house at April 2003?

A. It is up to the householder to obtain his or her own evidence. If the householder feels that the VOA have valued their property incorrectly then we are encouraging them to query that now instead of waiting until April 2005 to appeal. The VOA uses information of house sales as a basis on which the bands are assigned, but this is protected information, which the VOA can't disclose as yet. However, this information is available at a cost from the Land Registry.

Q I have 2 friends who live in very similar properties to mine. They have stayed in band E, whereas I have gone up a band. The houses are very similar, the only difference being that I have a conservatory. This seems to suggest that my house is worth more than theirs, but it isn’t, their houses are worth far more than mine, one of them is nearly double.

A. This is precisely why we are encouraging taxpayers to query their bandings now, so that the list is correct before it comes into force next April. We can't look at every single property individually as this would be far too expensive, and it would be taxpayers who would end up paying the extra cost.

Q. I looked on the website to discover that my neighbour is banded lower. I didn't realise that you could query the banding, but I will do so now.

A. Properties may not be exactly the same. Also, it may be that your band is correct your neighbours may have to be placed in higher band or vice versa.

Q. If someone queries the band because their neighbour is banded lower, there is also the possibility that their neighbour’s bands might be raised. Such consequentials can affect whole communities...

A. The primary concern of the VOA is to maintain a fair and accurate list. If a mistake has

been made it could be something as simple as an inputting error or someone not turning a page over. Since there are 1.3 million houses that need to be rebanded, each entered on computer as a separate entry, there will be some degree of human error involved, which is why the VOA has made an allowance for this by allocating some time before next April to review any proposed bands that the public query. They are only proposed bands which can be subject to change at this stage, and if an error is found to have been made following a review then the VOA will correct it.

Q. I looked on the Internet at section of streets with rows of identical terraced houses, some had moved down one band, but not all. Some were occupied by students, this was quite interesting as the houses were identical.

A . The VOA doesn't take the individuals who live at the property into account. What we have to look at is the property itself and how much that would have sold for around the 1st of April 2005 - factors such as "is the property in a reasonable state of repair?", etc. regardless of who actually lives at the property. It is the local councils who then use the bands to decide how much council tax people should pay and it is up to them whether they offer any discounts to people based on their situation, e.g. if they are on a low income, any disabilities, if they live alone, etc.

Q. Have you been given a set number of bands that you have to raise on properties, i.e.

a quota to fulfil?

A. Absolutely not. Our interest is in making sure that the bands we allocate are correct. The VOA doesn't directly collect the money itself. If the list is correct first time then this will reduce the number of appeals, this will then help us, it will help the Billing Authorities, and it will help everyone.

Q. Have the recent reductions of Council Tax for the 2005 re-banding meant that some properties have been reduced by one or two bands?

A. Yes – although most that have gone down have usually gone down one band

Q. General public aren’t aware of their rights to appeal the new council tax bandings. They don’t realise that they can query the new council tax bandings prior to next year. The VO hasn’t done enough to raise awareness.

A. VO have done more than ever before to raise awareness of the new council tax and the general public’s right to appeal and also to be able to make an enquiry via the helpdesks which have been set up. Information packs have been issued to MPs, AMs and voluntary organisations.

Leaflets were issued with Council Tax notifications. There has also been television coverage. The proof is in the number of queries we have already received throughout Wales but we value your feedback and perhaps need to look to other ways of getting the message across

Before the meeting closed the VO handed out a leaflet that had been produced by the local office and asked members to provide feedback via the feedback forms which would be issued by Jean Jones. Jean also reminded members that she could provide articles for their publications.

DATE OF NEXT MEETING

2nd March 2005 Caernarfon

3rd March 2005 Wrexham