Meeting held

23rd September 2003 at the Celtic Royal Hotel Caernarfon
and
25th September 2003 at the Wynnstay Hotel Wrexham

Members present

From the Valuation Office Agency (VOA)

Mary Hardman (Group Valuation Officer)
Jean Jones (Group Customer Services Manager)
Helen Zammit Willson (Group Revaluation Project Manager)
Rick Keeves (Group Council Tax Manager)
Tony Capp (National & Local Ratepayer Forum Project Manager)
Yvonne Simmonds (Caernarfon meeting)
Colette Salisbury(Wrexham meeting)

What follows is a summary of the presentations given at both meetings – which were similar – and the questions asked and responses made. Whilst these differed between the meetings they have been amalgamated in the minutes for ease of reading and to better inform all participants. Handouts of the presentations were distributed to all attendees on the day and are available electronically on request.

Mary Hardman welcomed all, thanking those who had participated previously and expressed the hope that those who were attending for the first time would find it interesting and informative. She went on to give an overview of the VOA and what it does and in particular the responsibilities of the North Wales Group.

Jean Jones (Group Customer Services Manager) then gave a presentation on the rating system – aptly entitled ‘A whistle stop tour of the Rating system and how it affects you’. She explained the basis or rateable value, explained the difference between the rateable value and the rates payable and the potential implications of transition. She outlined the main exemptions and reliefs and the role of the various agencies in the rating process. She went on to expand on the Valuation Office’s role, both in terms of the upkeep of the rating list following changes to property and in terms of dealing with appeals.

Questions

Is there going to be any change to Rural Relief in the future?

As the VOA we are not necessarily in a position to know but there is talk of a new relief - small business relief – potentially replacing rural relief. This was the responsibility of the WAG who would be invited to a subsequent meeting where the s could question them on this and any other item they may wish to raise.

A representative from Gwynedd Council stated that the Rural Relief in Gwynedd is on properties under £6000 and discretional on properties up to £12000, for whole of Gwynedd not just rural locations.

Conwy council stated that Rural Relief is only give to properties under £6000.

Are you an independent Agency or are you part of the Government?

We are Civil Servants employed by the Government.

What happens in Scotland, are there differences etc?

Scottish law is different to some extent although a large amount of work is going on to harmonise the two systems. In Scotland the Assessors are responsible for assessing property for rating purposes.

Helen Zammit-Willson gave a presentation on the Business Rates Revaluation 2005. She took the members through the various stages of the revaluation process. She then went on to explain the importance of accurate and full information on rents and rental terms.
She outlined the benefits to business to supplying information up front so that rating assessments were correct and acceptable right from the start, thus avoiding potential overpayment. She explained ways in which the Valuation Office was getting closer to ratepayers and making the system easier to understand. She explained that many ratepayers will receive copies of their valuations in the autumn of 2004 and that the majority of these will also be freely available on the intranet.

Questions

Are Clubs valued in the same way as public houses?

All properties are valued so as to arrive at their open market rental value. With clubs there tends to be some direct rental evidence and this is often used. In the case of pubs we would tend to look at information regarding the receipts of the pub and any available rental evidence when looking to establish rateable value

How does Sky Television know what the rateable value is on the property?

All rateable values are available to everyone – via the VOA, the Billing Authorities or the voa website – www.voa.gov.uk.

I pay two tenant rents on one Lease am I entitled to discount or relief?

Whilst the rent passing on a property can be good evidence of the open market rental value of the property there are other factors that may well have to be taken into account – we would have to look at the details in this case before we could advise.

Have you ever used a rent on a public house?

Rental information – where available and subject to it being an open market transaction - is used as part of the evidence.

Is there political influence?

As the Valuation Office we have a duty to arrive at an estimate of the open market rental value as at the valuation date. We do not collect the tax – that is the job of the Billing Authority.

Are there data protection issues in publishing summary valuations?

No there are no Data Protection Issues. However in some cases where occupiers feel that properties are security sensitive then we will look at suppressing the publication of that valuation–or part of it. This is still subject to discussion and we will update the position at a later meeting

Would a shop Rateable Value be calculated on rental evidence, and would you grant any relief for declining town centres?

Rateable values are calculated on rental evidence and the question of relief would be a matter for the Billing Authority and not necessarily a valuation issue (but see also question below).

Will there be relief for small businesses and business in rural areas?

It is crucial for small businesses to get Forms of Return back so that the VOA has sufficient evidence so that if it is apparent that rental values have fallen since the last revaluation then this can be reflected in the rateable value.

Phil Round representing Wrexham County Borough Council stated that rural relief is in force covering many of the smaller rural towns.
He also stated that Revenue Managers for the Councils meet periodically and if members wished any issues to be brought up in these meetings that he would discuss them.

Would there be any relief in towns were a few shops had closed down and the influx of the public had declined?

If there was a specific reason why the town is in decline, yes there could be a possibility for a reduction in the rating assessment i.e. if there is a physical change, for example, if a large shopping centre was being built close by, but If there was just a general decline it is not generally something for which the rating assessment can be reduced between revaluation s- but see above.

Will the VOA inform Ratepayers that they can appeal against things like Material Change?

One of the reasons for the Forum is to pass on information like this to the public. In addition there is comprehensive information on making appeals on the VOA website and from our offices.

At the Wrexham forum meeting, Mrs De Wolf then stated that she believes that the VOA is very good at listening to the public, they try to make things easy to understand. The Forums are very good on a local and National Level.

She feels that the VOA do a good job, but believes that ratepayers, through transitional surcharges, sometimes have to pay more rates not less.

Why was there rate relief for Foot and Mouth and not for Flooding?

For flooding each individual case would have to be looked at as they tend to differ in severity, duration etc.

How closely does the RV affect rental aspects of the property?

We must increase people’s awareness of the relationship between the rent that they agree to pay and their rateable value.

Tony Capp (National & Local Ratepayer Forum Project Manager) gave a presentation on the objectives of the National forum and also outlined the outcome of the review of the local forums following the earlier pilot in which North Wales had taken part.

Rick Keeves (Group Council Tax Manager) went on to a deliver a short talk on the Council Tax Revaluation 2005. He explained to background to the decision by the WAG to time the Revaluation for 2005. He took the forum through what had happened so far and the preparation that the Valuation Office had been making to be able to deliver the draft list to the Assembly by 1 September 2004.
He gave the members information on the proposed bands and figures from the consultation document which indicated how properties may move between the proposed bands in each of the Welsh Billing Authorities.

Questions

Does the amount of land that is being sold with a property alter the valuation?

It depends very much on the amount of land and what that land is used for – garden, agricultural etc.

Will all properties be inspected ?

Not necessarily. We hold significant amounts of information on many properties, many we have inspected recently for appeal or list updating purposes and we have a comprehensive digital mapping system. A significant number of properties will be inspected but these will be generally done by external inspection.

How do you view rural farming properties?

We have up to date details of many farms where we dealt with appeals or alterations over the last few years but some we will need to inspect.

Do we get permission to go onto a property?

If we need to enter onto a property then we will ask for permission to do so.

At the conclusion of the meetings Mary Hardman thanked everyone for attending and for participating.
The dates of the next meetings were set for 13th and 14th January in Caernarfon and Wrexham respectively (specific location to be arranged). Any suggestions for items would be most welcome and can be e mailed to Jean Jones. We will be following up with a questionnaire to gauge response to the timing, content and location of the meeting to inform the planning of future meetings

Jean Jones
LRVF Co-Ordinator